chadwickivester

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed in this interview belong solely to Dr. Bill Curtis. They do not express the views of the North American Mission Board or the views of the trustees at NAMB.

I would like to thank Dr. Bill Curtis for giving me the opportunity to interview him. I also would like to thank everyone who read the first part of the  interview. It is my opinion that Dr. Curtis would make a choice candidate for the 2008 SBC President . . . that is another topic for another blog. Some may not agree with Dr. Curtis on every issue, but he must be admired for his transparency and boldness to address the necessary issues “head-on” without flinching. Dr. Curtis’ transparency and boldness truly reflect that he seeks to obey God rather than men (Acts 5:29). His voice is truly is a ”breath of fresh air” for Southern Baptists . . .

This portion of the interview will not make the impact as part 1 did.  Nonetheless, I believe Dr. Curtis’ insight on the South Carolina Baptist Convention can be useful for ”state convention” level evaluation.

In part one, I posted only my questions and made them short and sweet;
Yet, in part two, since many readers are ”unfamiliar” with the South Carolina Baptist Convention, I have included all of my statements leading up to the questions to give the readers a better understanding
of the nature of the question.
1. Chadwick Ivester: What strides can the leadership in South Carolina make to seek to “connect” with the younger pastors to make them feel like they have “a place in the SC Baptist Convention?”

Bill Curtis: This is an issue that many state conventions are wrestling with right now. And again, all these factors tie together. If we’re prepared to make preference issues a test of fellowship, then many young leaders who are more contemporary in their methodology, are going to feel like unwanted, second-class pastors. As a result, they will continue to stay away. They’re not going to participate. Furthermore, if we’re not going to provide ministry and training opportunities that are relevant to younger pastors, they’re not going to participate.

So there has to be an intentionality that says, first of all, we are going to welcome our young pastors into our state conventions, even though they do ministry differently than a previous generation of pastors. Then, we’ve got to insure that when they come to our events, they are not going to be made to feel as if they’re doing ministry wrong, because they are doing it differently. That has to happen first.

Then, we have to move away from this ‘you’ve gotta’ pay your dues’ mentality to be involved in our conventions. Now, grant it, there is wisdom that is born of maturity, but we don’t want to display an arrogance that says, ‘Just because I’ve been doing it longer, I know how to do it better.’ Consequently, we need to ask the question, ‘Are we imposing an unreasonable and arbitrary time constraint for involvement in our conventions?’

You’ve asked an important question: “What can the state conventions do?” There are many things that our conventions can do if they are willing to become more proactive in involving young leaders. A number of state conventions are beginning to host meetings for emerging leaders. This communicates a desire to involve younger guys. Some states are offering breakout sessions at conferences that are designed to educate, equip, and engage young pastors in convention life. This investment in our young leaders makes them feel a part of the convention mission as imposed to being pushed off to the side.

Another thing state conventions could do is look for ways to cultivate a cross-generational support network for pastors. We need some of our older pastors, who are in current positions of leadership, to embrace our younger pastors even if their methodology is more contemporary than our older guys have experienced. We need an atmosphere that values and encourages young pastors instead of isolating and ostracizing them. This may be one of the greatest single things our conventions can do. Our older pastors must come to understand that a difference in worship style or methodology is not a repudiation of the previous generation’s work or methodology or approach. It’s simply different because times are different.

The message stays the same, but methodologies change from one generation to another. We should embrace that truth rather than resist it. Sadly, I think there are still many people in our conventions that just don’t get it. They are either unable to see it or unwilling to see it, and that’s a very sad thing. But the conventions that will have the greatest success will be those that are proactive in addressing these problems rather than ignoring them. The same thing is true at the national level. What it’s going to take are some guys from the older generation who will say to the younger guys, ‘You may do it different than us, but we support you, we affirm you, and we want to partner with you in Kingdom work.’ If our national leaders will do this, I believe our best years as a convention may be ahead. If they refuse to do this, we may be suffering from a severe shortage of young pastors in the near future.

2. CI: I have only been in SC for over a year, but the one thing I noticed, is the realistic goals that Dr. Carlisle Driggers set for us to accomplish. For example, Dr. Driggers cast the vision for every SBC church in SC to “baptize one person” each year. I think that is very realistic for the simple fact that the average SBC church is located in a rural area and has less than 100 members. . . I think Dr. Driggers is onto something because I think many church growth gurus are out of touch with “ultimate reality” of our average SBC churches. These church-growth gurus often state, “How many have you baptized?” for their whipping-post . . . It seems that some are more interested in quantity rather than quality. According to their philosophy, William Carey’s ministry was a total flop because it took him seven years to see his first convert. I see that Dr. Driggers more interested in quality rather than quantity. Do you think if these church-growth gurus spent more time in the average SBC church, talking to the average SBC pastor, that they would change their views on how to grow churches? Can Dr. Driggers’ noble vision be caught at a national level? If so, what would it take to be implemented?

BC: Well, you’ve just asked a lot of questions. Sadly, in the SBC as a whole, we’ve often used numbers as the sole source of determining our success. We have become number driven in many ways. How many missionaries do we have? How many baptisms do we have? How many church plants do we have? Because numbers are the easiest thing to measure, we often make them our focus. After all, how can I measure the work of God in somebody’s life or church? Unfortunately, we’ve used a numbers-based success model as a convention for a long time. In fact, in many circles we’ve used numbers as the sole test for determining ministry success. When I was in seminary, the big joke was our desire to have 8,000 in church so we could pray at the Southern Baptist Convention. Our system for too long has made demi-gods out of mega-church pastors while ignoring the amazing contributions of the majority of our pastors who serve in smaller settings. But I think we have our focus in the wrong place when we are captivated solely by numbers. I also believe that more and more people are beginning to realize that a numbers-driven approach is not the best approach.

Obviously, we know that the size of a church is not the ultimate test of success. If a church is large, it is so because of the grace and blessing of a sovereign God. Many things affect the size of a church, including the size of the population and the culture of the community. Yet, we celebrate those big numbers, even though in many instances, there many not be any correlation between body size and body health.

What we need is a model and a mind-set that will challenge all of our churches to be faithful and intentional in sharing the Gospel, while leaving the outcome to God. We must get away from the mindset that says ‘you must have a certain number of baptisms to be a success.’ I think we would naturally see an increase in baptisms because our focus would be back in the right place which is sharing the Gospel. We must all be intentional in sharing the Gospel; we must all trust the outcome to God. And as that happens, we will have the opportunity to celebrate the work of God in salvation instead of just celebrating baptism numbers.

Do I think that if some of these church growth guys spent more time in our Southern Baptist churches they might have a more realistic approach? I think the answer to that is ‘Yes.’ But all of us should have confidence in knowing that if we consistently share the Gospel, God will honor His word: some plant, some water, but it is God who gives the increase. We can trust God to accomplish His work. Can all of us be more intentional effective in our evangelism? Absolutely. Certainly it should be our desire as participants in the South Carolina convention, and in every state convention, to see more people come to Christ. But it will really help us if we get our focus back into the right place. Rather than just being consumed by numbers, we must be faithful and obedient to the Great Commission, because of our love and gratitude to God for His work in our lives through Christ.

3. CI: As we look for a new Executive Director in our state convention, what kind of qualities should our next State Executive Director possess?

BC: Well that’s a huge question and a huge task. I guess I’d say, first of all, I appreciate the men and women who are serving on the search team in South Carolina. I hear very little about what’s happening, which tells me they are doing a good job. It is a daunting task to find a replacement for Carlisle Driggers. I think the first question that the team must answer is, ‘What type of leader do we want in that position?’ This is a challenging question. I would assume the committee is looking for someone who can maximize the positive aspects of our convention while being open to growth and change.

Second, I think we need somebody who operates with a “Kingdom-First” mind-set. Dr. Driggers has modeled that for us. I think that’s something that should be built upon by our next leader. The growth of the Kingdom of God in South Carolina should be our primary objective. We need a leader who is committed to evangelism, church planning, and church revitalization. I touched on that earlier. I really believe that this is what the focus of our state convention should be about. Hopefully, our next leader will continue the emphasis we’ve had on Empowering Kingdom Growth.

Finally, I would hope that our committee is looking for someone who is committed to a regional approach to ministry that would give our convention a greater scope, a greater potential for impact at both the state and local level. In the past, we have tended to centralize the leadership for our conventions in specific locations. I would hope that, in the future, we will see in South Carolina what we are seeing in other places around the country—a desire to regionalize leadership so that we have more of our state convention folks in the field. This would provide a greater opportunity to impact churches and associations so that we can maximize our state resources and expertise. Those are some of my reflections on the kind of man that I feel would be effective in building on Dr. Drigger’s great legacy and expanding it in the years to come.